The title is a little mis-leading as it should more properly say Farage vs the Elite.
On Wednesday evening, Nigel Farage, leader of the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) participated in a debate with Nick Clegg, leader of the Liberal Democrat party. They debated issues around the UK's membership of the European Union (EU). Farage wants the UK to exit and Clegg wants the UK to remain a member albeit he 'understands' the need for reform.
The politicians that were present or commenting on TV, provided differing views of the outcome of the debate.
The Conservatives (coalition partners with the Lib Dems but the only one of the three major parties to offer the prospect of a referendum) scored the debate as a 'score draw' - both sides landed some good punches but overall a draw.
The Lib Dems, unsurprisingly, saw a 'hands down' win for Clegg.
Labour decided to pursue their soundbite campaign about the 'cost of living crisis'. That they couldn't offer much in the way of an opinion is not entirely surprising since the recent ramblings of their leader, Ed Miliband, on the subject, would keep a gaggle of Vienna psycho-analysts occupied for years trying to decipher the meaning. The Miliband babbling in answer to 'Will Labour hold a referendum' amount to ' Umm, err, Umm, maybe, only if, yes, no' etc.
UKIP, again unsurprisingly, saw it as a victory for their man and also for their party. Seeing their man at the 'top table' with the grown-ups.
Although I was in a time-zone four hours in advance of the UK, I watched the debate. I scored this as a victory for Farage. I wouldn't disagree with the YouGov poll which scored Farage at 57% and Clegg at around 39%.
Clegg accused UKIP of pursuing 'scare tactics' (for shame, Nigel!) over an election pamphlet that suggested that 29 million Bulgarians and Romanians were about to take-up their rights and flock to Britain. Since the combined total populations of these countries is less than 29 million, score one point to Nick. Farage's response was to highlight the fact (which wasn't then contested) that 485 million people in the EU do have the unfettered legal right to come to and settle in, the UK. The subtext was (unspoken of course, because UK politicians have not yet come around to being open about immigration) that the UK welfare system and free healthcare offered economic migrants a strong incentive to take-up the opportunity offered by the 'open border' currently presented.
Having accused Farage of 'scare tactics', Clegg then introduced some of his own.
Some 3 million UK jobs were on the line if the UK exited the EU. Major companies would shut down their UK operations if we left. The rationale appeared to be that our European trading partners wouldn't buy UK manufactures once we left.
Let's deconstruct that for a moment.
This seems to suggest that European consumers and businesses purchase UK goods and services as some kind of sympathetic action - they are 'helping out' the UK by buying things from us, that they don't really need and at prices that they wouldn't normally pay. Really? Call me Euro-sceptic but I think that the goods and services we provide to our European trading partners are wanted by them because they meet our partners need's in terms of quality, delivery and price. And that is exactly how it should be!
I guess that the further inference is that, in a fit of pique, our trading partners, who are mostly non-governmental organizations, would collectively decide to boycott UK goods and services, to teach the UK a lesson. Really?
These would be the same organizations that collectively export something like 50% more to the UK than the UK exports to the rest of the EU. So they would jeopardize their very large export market to aid the Euro-project? Really?
Oh, and those big business, like Siemens and Hitachi and Nissan - they manufacture in the UK mostly because, within the EU, the UK probably has the least restrictive labour laws. Why would you set-up a business in France, for example. In that country, a company doesn't so much employ a worker, as adopts them! Again, call me Europ-sceptic but I believe that these multi-national companies set-up manufacturing plants and business where it suits them to do so.
Again, Clegg was in scare-monger territory around the need to negotiate so many new trade treaties. And that the UK would be doing so, form a position of weakness. While I do recognize that Britain no longer has an empire (honestly, I do!) I also know that we have become a very significant trading nation. We are ranked as the 6th largest economy in the world and so I reckon we might know a thing or two about how to sign treaties. We are also a member of the World Trade Organization and the Commonwealth, so don't think that we would start from a ground zero position!
Overall, I think that the risk to the UK economy from exiting the EU is way overblown. Disruption, maybe a little, but that would come from any re-alignment, indeed, that has happened every time the EU has admitted a new member!
Farage strayed into confused territory when he talked about Human Rights legislation, since this is mostly governed by the European Court of Human Rights, a non-EU body. Clegg responded with praise for the Euro Arrest warrant and the resulting capture and extradition of a 7/7 bomber. The inference was that without the EU, Italy would not have arrested and extradited the then suspect. Really? Farage's response was to bring in the farce surrounding Britain's 12 year long efforts to rid ourselves of this dangerous man. Again though, ECHR rather than EU.
Farage struck a very resonant chord when talking about Britain being governed by the British rather than unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. Even managing to pull in a reference to Magna Carta to illustrate that the British are not exactly novices in the field of representative government (We, the people, to some folks!).
In conclusion,
Clegg didn't persuade me that the UK's continued membership of the EU was, on balance, of benefit to the UK. Farge's charge that the UK was contributing £55 million, to the EU, every single day resonates, especially when 'austerity' (otherwise known as living within your means) cuts are occurring in the UK!
Some might benevolently view Clegg's performance as 'courageous' in that he stood up and was counted. Call me jaundiced but I saw his performance as something like his job interview for a senior, unelected but very well paying, tax-free role, in the EU elite, when he leaves the UK political stage.
All said and done, to those UK voters, I suggest you vote UKIP in the May 2014 Euro elections and vote Conservative in the May 2015 General Election. The former will send shivers down the weak spine of the establishment politicians and may promote a more muscular demeanor on EU issues and the latter is the only realistic way that UK electors can have a hope of a referendum on a possible UK exit from the EU.
On Wednesday evening, Nigel Farage, leader of the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) participated in a debate with Nick Clegg, leader of the Liberal Democrat party. They debated issues around the UK's membership of the European Union (EU). Farage wants the UK to exit and Clegg wants the UK to remain a member albeit he 'understands' the need for reform.
The politicians that were present or commenting on TV, provided differing views of the outcome of the debate.
The Conservatives (coalition partners with the Lib Dems but the only one of the three major parties to offer the prospect of a referendum) scored the debate as a 'score draw' - both sides landed some good punches but overall a draw.
The Lib Dems, unsurprisingly, saw a 'hands down' win for Clegg.
Labour decided to pursue their soundbite campaign about the 'cost of living crisis'. That they couldn't offer much in the way of an opinion is not entirely surprising since the recent ramblings of their leader, Ed Miliband, on the subject, would keep a gaggle of Vienna psycho-analysts occupied for years trying to decipher the meaning. The Miliband babbling in answer to 'Will Labour hold a referendum' amount to ' Umm, err, Umm, maybe, only if, yes, no' etc.
UKIP, again unsurprisingly, saw it as a victory for their man and also for their party. Seeing their man at the 'top table' with the grown-ups.
Although I was in a time-zone four hours in advance of the UK, I watched the debate. I scored this as a victory for Farage. I wouldn't disagree with the YouGov poll which scored Farage at 57% and Clegg at around 39%.
Clegg accused UKIP of pursuing 'scare tactics' (for shame, Nigel!) over an election pamphlet that suggested that 29 million Bulgarians and Romanians were about to take-up their rights and flock to Britain. Since the combined total populations of these countries is less than 29 million, score one point to Nick. Farage's response was to highlight the fact (which wasn't then contested) that 485 million people in the EU do have the unfettered legal right to come to and settle in, the UK. The subtext was (unspoken of course, because UK politicians have not yet come around to being open about immigration) that the UK welfare system and free healthcare offered economic migrants a strong incentive to take-up the opportunity offered by the 'open border' currently presented.
Having accused Farage of 'scare tactics', Clegg then introduced some of his own.
Some 3 million UK jobs were on the line if the UK exited the EU. Major companies would shut down their UK operations if we left. The rationale appeared to be that our European trading partners wouldn't buy UK manufactures once we left.
Let's deconstruct that for a moment.
This seems to suggest that European consumers and businesses purchase UK goods and services as some kind of sympathetic action - they are 'helping out' the UK by buying things from us, that they don't really need and at prices that they wouldn't normally pay. Really? Call me Euro-sceptic but I think that the goods and services we provide to our European trading partners are wanted by them because they meet our partners need's in terms of quality, delivery and price. And that is exactly how it should be!
I guess that the further inference is that, in a fit of pique, our trading partners, who are mostly non-governmental organizations, would collectively decide to boycott UK goods and services, to teach the UK a lesson. Really?
These would be the same organizations that collectively export something like 50% more to the UK than the UK exports to the rest of the EU. So they would jeopardize their very large export market to aid the Euro-project? Really?
Oh, and those big business, like Siemens and Hitachi and Nissan - they manufacture in the UK mostly because, within the EU, the UK probably has the least restrictive labour laws. Why would you set-up a business in France, for example. In that country, a company doesn't so much employ a worker, as adopts them! Again, call me Europ-sceptic but I believe that these multi-national companies set-up manufacturing plants and business where it suits them to do so.
Again, Clegg was in scare-monger territory around the need to negotiate so many new trade treaties. And that the UK would be doing so, form a position of weakness. While I do recognize that Britain no longer has an empire (honestly, I do!) I also know that we have become a very significant trading nation. We are ranked as the 6th largest economy in the world and so I reckon we might know a thing or two about how to sign treaties. We are also a member of the World Trade Organization and the Commonwealth, so don't think that we would start from a ground zero position!
Overall, I think that the risk to the UK economy from exiting the EU is way overblown. Disruption, maybe a little, but that would come from any re-alignment, indeed, that has happened every time the EU has admitted a new member!
Farage strayed into confused territory when he talked about Human Rights legislation, since this is mostly governed by the European Court of Human Rights, a non-EU body. Clegg responded with praise for the Euro Arrest warrant and the resulting capture and extradition of a 7/7 bomber. The inference was that without the EU, Italy would not have arrested and extradited the then suspect. Really? Farage's response was to bring in the farce surrounding Britain's 12 year long efforts to rid ourselves of this dangerous man. Again though, ECHR rather than EU.
Farage struck a very resonant chord when talking about Britain being governed by the British rather than unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. Even managing to pull in a reference to Magna Carta to illustrate that the British are not exactly novices in the field of representative government (We, the people, to some folks!).
In conclusion,
Clegg didn't persuade me that the UK's continued membership of the EU was, on balance, of benefit to the UK. Farge's charge that the UK was contributing £55 million, to the EU, every single day resonates, especially when 'austerity' (otherwise known as living within your means) cuts are occurring in the UK!
Some might benevolently view Clegg's performance as 'courageous' in that he stood up and was counted. Call me jaundiced but I saw his performance as something like his job interview for a senior, unelected but very well paying, tax-free role, in the EU elite, when he leaves the UK political stage.
All said and done, to those UK voters, I suggest you vote UKIP in the May 2014 Euro elections and vote Conservative in the May 2015 General Election. The former will send shivers down the weak spine of the establishment politicians and may promote a more muscular demeanor on EU issues and the latter is the only realistic way that UK electors can have a hope of a referendum on a possible UK exit from the EU.
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