In the late 1600s, independent Scotland sought to address the economic decline which it was suffering by emulating the English and establishing an overseas empire.
They sought to create a colony called New Caledonia in what is now Panama. They raised funds to do so and these funds were estimated to account for between 20 and 25% of the monetary wealth of Scotland.
The Darien Scheme, as it became know failed, terribly.
The indebtedness of whole swathes of Scottish society (not just tribal chiefs and wealthy merchants!) pushed Scotland to seeking a political and monetary union with England and the formation of the United Kingdom.
This was completed in 1707. Part of the agreement was that the Scottish pound was subsumed into the Pound Sterling with a fixed value of 1 shilling (5 Pence). Additionally, Scotland was granted £398,085 from the English exchequer.
That £400,000 grant which staved off national bankruptcy, for Scotland would, if compounded by a conservative 5% per annum, now be equivalent to £1.16 Trillion.
Some Scots would say, ' Aye but England has taken all of our oil money' (no doubt adding epithets before the word England).
However, since 1968, the sum total of all taxes raised against the oil and gas industry, in the whole of the UK, totals to £158 billion. Assuming all of this was ascribed to Scotland (which it absolutely shouldn't be!), then this would still leave Scotland owing £1 Trillion to England - an amount, funnily enough which is the same as the UK National Debt!.
So, Alex and the people of Scotland - Can we have our money back?
Not all of it, of course.
Scotland has contributed to the Union in so many ways and for that, credit should be given
Alexander Fleming
James Watt
James Napier
John Logie Baird
David Livingstone
Andrew Carnegie
Robert Burns
Arthur Conan Doyle
Ian Rankin
Queen Elizabeth, the Queen's Mother
Among many, many others including the many people that have served the Union both within the UK and throughout the British Empire in the military and civil service as well as commerce and all other forms of endeavor.
How much credit, for this contribution?
Honestly, it's hard to calculate and put a value on the contribution that these folks made to the success of the United Kingdom. leave alone then having to make deductions from the sum arrived at for Scotland's giving the UK, people like Gordon Brown ( I won't mention those awful Hogmanay celebrations with the White Heather Club, as Scots and English alike, suffered that!)
So, let's work up a number and then 'Wee eck' and his merry band of supporters can settle up.
Incidentally, would the financial crisis in the Irish Republic, have anything to do with the silence in the demands for unification, from Adams, McGuinness and the other Nationalist terrorists?
Quite from Wales too. The valleys may have once been green and may be getting back to that condition, but the 'green, green grass' of independence doesn't look so appealing in these cold and harsh economic times.
Alex, Please send the cheque, guaranteed by a solvent international bank, and make it payable to The People of England - c/o HM Treasury'. You don't have to sign it, from an ungrateful Scot, we will know who it came from, but please do sign and date it! Since you insist on dragging out the referendum debate you have plenty of time to get the funds in place!
They sought to create a colony called New Caledonia in what is now Panama. They raised funds to do so and these funds were estimated to account for between 20 and 25% of the monetary wealth of Scotland.
The Darien Scheme, as it became know failed, terribly.
The indebtedness of whole swathes of Scottish society (not just tribal chiefs and wealthy merchants!) pushed Scotland to seeking a political and monetary union with England and the formation of the United Kingdom.
This was completed in 1707. Part of the agreement was that the Scottish pound was subsumed into the Pound Sterling with a fixed value of 1 shilling (5 Pence). Additionally, Scotland was granted £398,085 from the English exchequer.
That £400,000 grant which staved off national bankruptcy, for Scotland would, if compounded by a conservative 5% per annum, now be equivalent to £1.16 Trillion.
Some Scots would say, ' Aye but England has taken all of our oil money' (no doubt adding epithets before the word England).
However, since 1968, the sum total of all taxes raised against the oil and gas industry, in the whole of the UK, totals to £158 billion. Assuming all of this was ascribed to Scotland (which it absolutely shouldn't be!), then this would still leave Scotland owing £1 Trillion to England - an amount, funnily enough which is the same as the UK National Debt!.
So, Alex and the people of Scotland - Can we have our money back?
Not all of it, of course.
Scotland has contributed to the Union in so many ways and for that, credit should be given
Alexander Fleming
James Watt
James Napier
John Logie Baird
David Livingstone
Andrew Carnegie
Robert Burns
Arthur Conan Doyle
Ian Rankin
Queen Elizabeth, the Queen's Mother
Among many, many others including the many people that have served the Union both within the UK and throughout the British Empire in the military and civil service as well as commerce and all other forms of endeavor.
How much credit, for this contribution?
Honestly, it's hard to calculate and put a value on the contribution that these folks made to the success of the United Kingdom. leave alone then having to make deductions from the sum arrived at for Scotland's giving the UK, people like Gordon Brown ( I won't mention those awful Hogmanay celebrations with the White Heather Club, as Scots and English alike, suffered that!)
So, let's work up a number and then 'Wee eck' and his merry band of supporters can settle up.
Incidentally, would the financial crisis in the Irish Republic, have anything to do with the silence in the demands for unification, from Adams, McGuinness and the other Nationalist terrorists?
Quite from Wales too. The valleys may have once been green and may be getting back to that condition, but the 'green, green grass' of independence doesn't look so appealing in these cold and harsh economic times.
Alex, Please send the cheque, guaranteed by a solvent international bank, and make it payable to The People of England - c/o HM Treasury'. You don't have to sign it, from an ungrateful Scot, we will know who it came from, but please do sign and date it! Since you insist on dragging out the referendum debate you have plenty of time to get the funds in place!
Don't forget we gave the world The Crankies too! And of of course, Margaret Thatcher's beloved Adam Smith.
ReplyDeleteAfter 4 years of majority SNP rule only around one third of Scots would vote for independence today so it seems unlikely to go ahead. The SNP don't have answers yet to many of the big questions like will Scotland join the euro or how much debt we would take on.
Reform Scotland is an independent, non-party think tank that aims to set out a better way to deliver increased economic prosperity and more effective public services based on the traditional Scottish principles of limited government, diversity and personal responsibility. They are calling for lower taxes north of the border to stimulate economic growth to fund Scotland's larger public spending needs (about 116% of England's).
Now, if Scotland left the union the Labour party in Westminster would suffer as far few labour MPs would be returned so power in Westminster would shift more to the right. And it wouldn't have to send more than its fair share of expenditure North to fund those thorny initiatives like free university education, free prescriptions, free bus passes etc etc.
Finally, for parallels in Scottish independence, look to Quebec who have taken two independence votes in the last 20 years or so. Last time the vote was 51% in favour of staying with Canada.
In defence of the Scots, you've got to take into some consideration that monetary and fiscal policy has been focussed more on the needs of the South East of England rather than places like Scotland. As an example, think fuel duty and it's impact on rural communities.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, economic policy hasn't always been aligned to the needs of Scotland (or Wales, Northern Ireland, North East of England etc).
Of course, we never gave this much consideration during the recent boom times but this has now come more into focus with the spending cuts.
So to regard Scotland's debt as purely down to their own doing is perhaps a bit harsh.
Anonymous Feb 26 09.53 - I also didn't mention the Bay City Rollers! I don't want Wee Eck accusing me of being anti-Scottish.
ReplyDeleteThe mention of Scotland's indebtedness to England is somewhat 'tongue in cheek', as you will surmise. I sincerely hope that Scotland does vote to stay in the Union and that the question can be put to bed for a generation, at least.
I do think that having had so long to consider the question, the SNP would be able to come-up with something reasonably quickly. I am reminded that the process to set-up the Scottish Parliament was initiated after Labour came to power in May 1997 and was concluded, with a vote having taken place, by September 1997.
I am therefore minded to think that the SNP do not really want independence but rather want more power and money from the rest of the UK, with the rest of the UK acting as a 'guarantor' for the Scottish parliament. Nothing I have heard from Wee Eck, disabuses me of this view.
Yes, there are lots of similarities between the positions of Quebec and Scotland and I hope that we do not follow the Canadian example of pandering, with economic 'sweeties' to Quebec.
Anonymous Feb 26 10.31
I am not sure that policy has been focused on the SE of England rather that that is the location of a very important part of the UK economy and has grown greatly while other sectors, located elsewhere have declined or grown less fast because of other events rather than as a matter of policy.
I do agree that fuel duty is a grossly unfair burden on rural communities in all countries of the Union. However, we have a metropolitan focused parliament and media, who are also in thrall to the 'green' lobby and seem to think that public transport, which is not viable in most rural areas, is somehow the answer to any complaint about this burden.
In response to a previous comment about mis-alignment between the needs of Westminster and Scotland you just need to look at the mis-management of the oil and gas industry. On a number of occassions over the last 9 years, Westminster has imposed higher taxes with little or no notice in the North Sea to fund its short term requirements. This has caused significant uncertainty in the North Sea and impacted on the industry's decisions to invest in the area. As the majority of jobs in the industry are based in Scotland, it's the Scots who bear the brunt of this.
ReplyDeleteI declare an interest in that I work in the Oil and Gas Industry, albeit not in the UK.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the North Sea has become something of a whipping boy as regards taxation. Governments of all hues keep on going to the well and taking more and more tax. This HAS caused a reduction in activity and I can't help but feel that this will continue to do so.
Relative to Scottish independence, I think that, though Wee Eck started out as an Oil Economist for RBS, he will need to go back to the well again to fund his socialist policies for Scotland. I am not sure where else he can garner the extra money from any other source.
UK national debt is forecast to hit around £1.4trillion by 2014, when Mr Salmond says he wants to hold an independence referendum.
ReplyDeleteAt around 10 per cent of the UK total, Scotland’s allocation of public spending is higher than its share of population.
If its share of the national debt is allocated on this basis, it will be saddled with debts of around £140billion.
An independent Scotland should also be made to take back the £187billion in toxic assets of the Royal Bank of Scotland, currently held by the Treasury.
I dis-agree about an independent Scotland taking all of the RBS hit on its books. This too should be proportionately shared. I do though wonder, now that the gun has been fired, just how screwed-up the numbers and economics will get and will be presented in the 'debate' that faces Scotland.
ReplyDeleteI am glad that Cameron and Westminster have held out for a single question referendum - though I fail to see why it should take so long as it is forecast to take, to formulate it!
What worries me is that there are so many unanswered questions and I sense that they will remain so. I will return to this subject, in the coming days.